Clearing Archive Roboposter roboposter at
Tue Aug 18 18:06:02 EDT 2020

Is "Full OT" Achievable?

<Excerpted from a conversation with Ted Crammer.>

Ted Crammer wrote:

> gfyork <gfyork at> wrote:
> > Worst of all, I discovered that no one in the FreeZone seems to believe
> > that "Full OT" can be achieved, knowing what we now know, in a single
> > lifetime.  Damn! That's hard to choke down.
> Full OT is a no-game condition the way most people conceive of it. It is
> not on the grade chart that I have before me. The top level is defined
> as Operating Thetan, OT Course Section VIII: Ability to be at cause
> knowingly and at will over thought, life, form, matter, energy, space
> and time, subjective and objective.


> Some people see that OT definition as a rise to total dominance even if
> it is "benevolent" dominance that they vision. Someone in a very bad
> case state could easily adopt this as a hallucinatory objective. See the
> Effect Scale in 0-8.

As a good libertarian, I'm not real big on "dominance."  On the other
hand, freedom is pretty important.  I do see the "OT" abilities as
including the magical-levitation, controlled telepathy, teleportation,
the materialization and dematerialization of visible illusions and
"real" MEST.  I do not see these abilities as being "to control
others."  I suspect that, if used that way, they would not long endure. 
I see them as convenient and as enabling one to play a broader game. 
They can enable a vastly more complex "humanoid" game or let one move on
to other games that don't much require bodies.

Perhaps we should have an intermediate state, beyond clear, called
"Operating Human."  Then we could have "grades" of the OH levels. 
Certainly it seems obvious (and desirable) that a being should become an
extraordinarily effective "human" before he becomes (or is allowed to
become)  "super-human."  I'd see this level (and I'm perfectly serious
while appreciating the humor) as raising a person's abilities to their
peak possible while still within in the realm of the "humanly
achievable."  It would aim for nothing that grossly violates the
ordinary understanding of what is possible.

Possible (and perhaps fanciful) OH Levels.

OH I, Exchange:  Ability to perceive what another wants and help them
get it.
Master at creating values for self and others.  Demonstrates a sustained
ability to be in the right place at the right time.  (This needs to be
first because all the rest are going to cost a bundle!)  In Alan's
terminology, he would be consistently and stably greenzone with a solid
grounding in basic economics.

OH II, Identity:  Ability to recall who you are and what you've done. 
Ability to create and uncreate new identities at will.  Ability to store
and retrieve Identity "packages."  Locates and dismisses any unwanted
identities.  Recovery of lost skills.  "Photographic" memory. 
Rehabilitates and stabilizes OH I if necessary.  (This might include
Alan's Codes tech -- part of "who you are" -- and the identities
material as well.  Maybe Idenics.)

OH III, Games:

Section I, Player:  Ability to perceive, understand, and play (or
decline to play) any game at will.  Locates and identifies all games in
which he is currently participating.  Decides which games to continue
and which to resign.

Special attention to ongoing whole track games.  Analysis of continued
games and plans for effective play.  Locate and handle any BPC on prior
and existing games.  (Enid's "Games Spheres" stuff?)

Section II, Master:  Ability to create interesting and valuable games
and recruit players.

Section III, Umpire: Ability to detect and handle outpoints in any game
and rehabilitate it's players.  Ability to spot, resolve, and reconcile
conflicts between players of different games.

OH IV, Body: Ability to remain healthy under any circumstances.  Ability
to spot the source of disease and make it vanish.  Produces a healthy
happy human being with no disabilities who does not get sick -- ever. 
Marked retardation of aging processes.  Conscious control of all bodily
functions including the autonomic.  Can raise or lower blood pressure at
will, stop or start heart without damage, control precisely the
secretion of any gland, and command the immune system.  Can conceivably
regrow missing body parts or substantially change the body's form.  Can
use all the body's senses to the fullest extent.
(Kind of a cross between a solid Dianetic completion and the most
accomplished Yogi ever reported.)

OH V, Energy: A human being with boundless energy. Ability to spot the
source of tiredness and make it vanish.  Needs no or minimal sleep.

OH VI, Time: Ability to control the subjective experience of time. The
end of plus or minus randomity.

OH VII, Scope: Revisits, rehabs, and stabilizes all previous OH levels
and expands their scope.  Can be repeated as desired or needed.

OH VIII, Mastery: Full understanding of the OH technologies and ability
to deliver all eight levels to anyone.  (Knows how to do it and how to
teach doing it.)

Then, the OT levels could be what I think they were originally conceived
to be: the steps beyond human.  Certainly some "OT Phenomena" would turn
on during the course of delivering the OH levels or the prior "Grades."

There should be an OT level that can be done at any time that would take
any demonstrated OT ability, validate it, expand it, and take a stab at
stabilizing it.  Repeated as necessary and as new phenomena occur.  Call
it OT 0.

Then, OT 1 becomes a consolidation step that rehabs any prior OT
abilities gained and/or, at minimum, develops and stabilizes the ability
to be exterior with full perception at will.  Yeah -- read the damn
cards.  From a thousand miles away if you want.  Anytime you want.  And
stay with OT 1 until you can, 100%, every time.

Personally, I don't think you've got much of an "OT" until you can do
this.  Instead, you've got a human being who's manifesting "weird shit"
that he can't control.  A "writer" who can't communicate is no writer
and an "OT" who can't get out of his body and see what's up -- no fuss
no muss and no ambiguity -- is no OT.  That's no "hidden standard" it's
a standard.  In the absence of clear standards, you end up producing no
products or overt products.  So, with OT 1, we've got a being who can
move and see where he's going without using a body.

Well -- that's certainly "operating" but it is a very minimal kind of
operation -- he's just an observer.

I assume that, by the time we get here, most of the stuff currently in
the "OT lineup" has already been done.  I mean -- it might as well as it
doesn't really produce OTs.  Not reliably.  It was Ron's "setup" for
producing OTs.  He's probably already run into his "entity" case and
should have done whatever is necessary to get that "out of the way."  At
least to the extent that he knows with certainty, what's his own stuff
and what is someone else's.

We need to know, with certainty, if all those entities are just
"bothers" or if some are (and should remain) helpers.  Alan's "Spiritual
Teammates" idea.  If Alan is correct, at some point, probably well
before these OT levels, one should have identified, processed as needed,
hatted and org-boarded one's teammates. Would probably be necessary to
get to first base as an "Operating Human."  And, here, it might just be
that we need to be on good terms with our teammates to reliably do OT
stuff in the PU.

If you can't do anything, you can't screw anything up!  So I think we're
in pretty good shape up to OT I.  But, to be effective, you have to do
stuff -- that means moving the marble.  Sure, you could make a good
living as a "remote intelligence associate" but that seems kind of
degraded -- and not particularly OT.

But if we can "do stuff" without a body, right away we should be up
against what we already did -- without a body.  And, perhaps, why we
restrained ourselves from "doing stuff" in the first place.  On the OH
levels we certainly handled our whole track O/W case "as a humanoid;" on
OT II, we would need to handle our whole track O/W case as a thetan --
an operating thetan.  This would include, as well, all our attempts to
solve malicious, capricious, or simply mischievous meddling -- unwanted
meddling -- in our and other's games.  This would include tricking
others into making limiting postulates (and being tricked ourselves),
implanting, luring others into "prison" universes (and being lured in),
plus your basic evildoing shame, blame, and regret.

This level might take years.  But, however long it takes, I doubt we can
expect stable OT powers until it's well and truly done.  This level
should be called "Trust."  It would rehabilitate our trust in ourselves
and in others.  And I doubt we will allow these powers in ourselves or
others until we can trust ourselves and others.

After OT II, Trust, comes OT III.

We might as well call it "Moving MEST" or some such, as that is the next
step. Moving the marble -- without a body.  And at will.  Once achieved,
take a win.

I haven't a clue how to achieve it but that ability belongs here.  Once
achieved, you may be a weak and puny OT but you are sure as hell an OT. 
After this, we need continuing exercises that improve power (how much
can be moved, with what force), range, and scope.  While there are some
possible useful hints in Ron's work, he didn't really get very far in
this area.  It may take significant cross-fertilization with other
fields, study like Les and Ralph have done of traditional "magic"
disciplines, and who knows what before we get to where we can reliably
teach this stuff.  I am not at all sold on the mystic line, "You can't
have it if you reach for it."  There might be a smidgen of truth there
in that case factors impinge on WHY one wants to achieve it.  Once the
bulk of the case stuff is out of the way, and, by this point it should
be, the consideration should be inapplicable.

Now that we've got at least a minimal OT, one who can "do stuff," and
who can get better at "doing stuff," there is still a consideration of

No matter how powerful, a "lone OT" is kinda feeble.  If he wants to be
truly effective, he must be capable of working with others.  In this
case, he must be able to work with other OTs.  To do this, he needs to
be able to communicate with them -- without a body.
OT IV then is Communication -- or telepathy.  Prior to this, on the OH
levels, he's already dealt with telepathy but with its mostly
"unconscious" manifestations.  Here, we want a result that is far
superior to the best videophone or virtual reality connection
conceivable.  He should certainly learn to communicate, to initiate and
receive, with anyone who's already had OT IV.

Better, he should be able to do so with anyone or any "thing" that
thinks.  And he should "prove it" to his instructors before he's
complete.  As a setup, this probably involves a revisiting of Grade 0
(and perhaps all the Grades) to handle very thoroughly anything that
might get in the way of full contact with another's "mind."

For a long time yet, there will be some people who might "freak out" at
mysterious, unseen forces causing inexplicable motion in their
presence.  To be fully effective (and minimize other's unpleasant
reactions) it would be best to be able to manifest, physically, where
one needed to act.  The next level, then, handles this.

OT V, Manifestation.  The novice OT first learns to produce visible

Section one is complete when he can manifest an intangible illusion that
"appears" solid to a single observer, to all observers present, or to
selected observers at will.  In effect, he learns to be a really
talented goast.  At minimum he must be able to "mock up" an illusory
human body identical to his own and "pass unremarked" among others for
24 hours.  He must, in combination with his telekinetic ability, be able
to simulate all normal physical actions that do not actually involve
bodily contact with others and be able to do so easily.

Section two of OT V teaches the OT to make his illusions tangible.  He
first learns to mock up a cup with sufficient solidity that he can pass
it to another who can fill it with, um, water and take a drink.  For
this section, the "cup" need not much resemble, in detail, normal matter
-- it is sufficient that he can control its external form and that it be
solid and endure while in his presence.

This section is complete when he can make a mockup of his own body, that
is identical on cursory examination, that he can make walk, talk, and
perform any function of his ordinary body.  The created body need not be
so detailed as to pass a medical exam but it should go unremarked by
close friends and lovers.  On completion, the OT should be able to
easily operate the created body continuously for extended periods -- at
least a week.  He should be able to maintain his "natural" body in good
condition (though he's not required to operate it) throughout the
exercise.  He must be able to vanish the body at will (and without
regret or other misemotion) and recreate it at will and be able to do
both rapidly.
Section 3 of OT V increases the span of control of the OT to the
operation of multiple bodies.  He learns to operate a created body while
continuing to operate the natural body.  On a gradient, he learns to
handle multiple simultaneous viewpoints and easily integrate perceptions
and sensations from all without creating automaticities or becoming
confused.  The OT graduates from this section when he can handle 5
bodies simultaneously -- and have fun doing it.

On Section 4 of OT V the OT learns to create actual MEST.  He must be
able to create matter, energy, space and time that is indistinguishable,
by any known means, from preexisting MEST and which requires no
extraordinary attention to endure.
In addition, he must be able to uncreate his own or "unowned" MEST.  He
must be able to mock up a "real" MEST body identical to his own.  He
must be able to create a body of any desired appearance, age, or
gender.  In the end, he must be able to mockup and dispense with many
bodies and be completely unconcerned whether he's left with the original
or one of his creations.

This section (and OT V) is complete when the OT can operate 5 created
MEST bodies, of varying age and gender, over a period of one month,
creating them any place on the planet as needed, uncreating them in one
location and recreating them in another, and can operate the bodies,
separated by planetary distances, with ease.  (Note that a prerequisite
to doing any of this stuff is the ability to "permeate" or perceive IN
DETAIL the "insides" of stuff and to remember what you've seen.)

Graduates of OT V are given a series of creation exercises to continue
development of their abilities and are expected to play "musical bodies"
with other OTs of this level or higher.  They should learn to trade as
well the "identity packages" they have created for each body.  OTs at
this level should already understand that an identity is just "a way to
be in order to accomplish something" and be able to create, assume,
store or discard identities at will.(The identity definition is from
Idenics and is the best and most succinct I've yet seen.)

Well, it serves little purpose I suppose to continue speculating what
true OT levels would be like.  I have no doubt that "true OTs" would
create them a bit differently than I.  I expect that, at first, such
levels would be confidential.  I know this is controversial and I could
be wrong.  It's just hard to conceive that someone who could actually do
this stuff (and teach others to do it) would broadcast it too widely. 
Given Hubbard's talk regarding opposition to OTs in the past, it does
not seem wise -- certainly not right off.  While there seems little
enough anyone at our current level of technology could do to "harm" an
OT V as I've postulated it, still it seems best not to invite
opposition.  Were I "running the show," I'd probably content myself with
issuing an invitation to those who were nearing completion of their "OH"

Hell -- maybe something like that is already happening.

> If you focus on specific time, place, form, and event, you will find
> areas of your life where you are in fact "Full OT." Total Willing Cause
> must also be Total Willing Effect. A person's or being's acceptance
> levels, tone, as well as willingness to use and be the effect of force
> set the limits on cause and effect.

I expect we pretty much agree here.  Couple of caveats:

In the short term, this applies particularly to those who have already
renounced some level of force -- have bought into the notion that it's
unacceptable -- because of past overts or protest.  

In the long term, it applies to anyone as one will, eventually, restrain
oneself from creating effects on others that one is unwilling to
personally experience.
Acceptable force and "cause" vary with the game one is playing and with
the agreements of the players.  It's the violation of the agreements
rather than any particular use of force or any particular "cause" that
sparks protest and subsequent restraint.

> Pick an issue, process it to completion and the physical universe and
> other life forms align and oblige. The Hidden Standard which is that a
> first dynamic -- being+minds+body -- would be elevated to god-state and
> thus at cause over ~everything~ at all times and all circumstances.
> Again, reference the Effect Scale in 0-8.

I might be mis-taking your point.  It's obvious to me that you can't
even have a communication with other beings if you insist on being "at
cause over ~everything~ at all times and all circumstances."  That's
someone who's
at "native state" and insists on remaining there -- all alone -- with
out" signs posted all around their private universe.  To communicate
another you must, at minimum, allow unpredictable foreign stuff to
manifest in your space. Right off, you've given up _considerable_

<stuff snipped>

> > I still hope that some FreeZone practitioner -- some techfinder -- will
> > discover a route to "Full OT" that can actually be achieved in a single
> > lifetime.  I know for damn sure that, if it's going to happen at all, it's
> > going to happen outside the Church.  Ron's gone and the Church is locked
> > in to what's already been accomplished and, as we know, that's not enough
> > -- not nearly.
> As odd as it may seem to some, all a being has to do is continue to
> address the "terminals" in his life and assume responsibility for all
> that falls within his perceptions and he does this ~from right where
> he's at~.

I have a suspicion that the only thing at issue is how "Full OT" is to
be defined.  I may have rudely appropriated it for my own use when
others have a perfectly agreed upon usage -- that means something else. 
Ron, I believe, insisted that the OT levels were actually pre-OT until
OT VIII.  I guess, deep down, he couldn't stomach calling "OT" what he
was able to create with the existing technology.  I feel certain that
he, too, hoped to restore people to the state of "free being" that he
describes of some of his tapes - huge beings who could easily manipulate
MEST in large quantities and who had zero need of a body to do so.  I
believe he wanted to return beings to that state with an understanding
of why they snuffed their powers and how to behave so the wouldn't snuff
them again.

I just grabbed "Full OT" to mean someone who could easily handle MEST in
Any desired fashion and who had no need for a physical intermediary such
as a body.  I do not intend to denigrate any abilities or states short
of that.

Alan's "Gold Zone," for instance, is quite magical and I've no doubt
that his clients often achieve it for a while.  In a sense, it's TOO
magical.  Stuff "just happens" to make things turn out well.  It "just
happens" that what you want to happen comes to pass.  There is some
hidden, unknown intermediary between cause and effect.  "Hey -- looks
like someone on the team might have taken care of that."  It's certainly
a long way better than for bad shit to turn up but it's also a long way
from "OT."  It may, though, be about the closest we can come just now to
"having" magic.  A way to have it happen "behind our backs" and for
which we need NOT take personal responsibility.  What it is not is
knowing, willing and responsible cause.

> In another thread Alan and Heidrun batted an issue around half jokingly
> and half seriously concerning the tires on their cars being in
> communication with each other. The perception that things and people and
> other life forms in one's vicinity are in communication with oneself and
> with each other is a very healthy perception. If a being can establish
> and maintain these comm lines, that being is Full OT in the context of
> his life. What more could a person want except for others to achieve
> similarly?

Awareness of and the ability to knowingly use telepathic communication
Certainly an aspect of "Full OT."  For me, it's far from being the
"whole ball of wax."

> The knowledge necessary is available in the Basic Auditing Series and
> the reference tapes from which the series was extracted. It also helps
> to have many hours in the chair -- enough to have developed a clear
> perception of the Auditing Comm Cycle and a perception of the various
> types and conditions of terminals that could come to view.

To develop telepathy?  I've experienced bits and snatches of that from
both sides of the cans.  Did I miss something?

> It is unreasonable to assume that even a Full OT would not need a Qual
> Div. when operating in this universe so it is a good idea to find or
> make a few other OTs along the way. One reference is HCOPL Stuck In.
> Also, "OTs work best with OTs."


> BTW, I use LRH refs. here in this discussion group for the sake of
> getting a communication across but refs. aren't necessary if beings
> could look straight at something or accept a communication as-is.


> > Too, reportedly and erratically, OT "phenomena" sometimes turn on, persist
> > for an unpredictable time, and turn off.  Sometimes it's under control and
> > sometimes not.  Is this about what you understand?  Now -- if we only
> > understood two things -- we'd be half-way to having the problem licked:
> > why it turns on; why it turns off.
> Sometimes the "rules" of the universe are broken but when the emergency
> is over things get back to normal and balance out. Stories of an average
> person lifting such extremely heavy objects as an automobile off an
> injured person are not uncommon.

If we are to believe Hubbard, we have a rather imperfect understanding
of the rules.  Clearly "Free Beings" had a different set of rules or our
understanding of the rules needs improving.  I know it's hardly sporting
to "pull the air cover" or snuff a sun or move planets about without the
consent of its inhabitants.  And while that sort of thing surely pissed
a lot of people off, it did not seem to be so utterly against the
rules.  It could be, I suppose, that each planet has a kind of "local
consensus" about what is possible that more or less binds the
inhabitants more or less all of the time.  Even if so, it would be a
real good idea to know how to circumvent such agreements just in case
the stray, uneducated, and capricious free being turns up.

Cripes, Ted.  Thanks a lot!  Turns out I've shot nearly the whole day on
this one.  And I'm supposed to be looking for my next contract.


Gary F. York

================ ====================
Tue Aug 18 18:06:02 EDT 2020 
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================== ===================
Learning implies Learning with Certainty or Learning without Certainty.
Learning across a Distance implies Learning by Being an Effect.
Learning by Being an Effect implies Learning without Certainty.
Therefore, Learning with Certainty implies Learning, but 
not by Being an Effect, and not across a Distance.

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